Bloody Shovel 3

We will drown and nobody shall save us


Context here is that Han Chinese are 45% of the population there but only 22% of births. Modern people find it bothersome to raise families when living surrounded by hostile Muslims.

The Chinese at least understand the problem.


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  • I guess the Han Chinese shall inherit the earth rather than the Muslims. Who can say? The Chinese have technology and cooperation working for them, while the Muslims have patriarchy. If the Chinese become more patriarchal they win.

  • Still too many xenomorph egg sacs laying around. Taking a flamethrower to the problem might avert the need for more drastic solutions, like nuking the facility from orbit...

    • Already been standard practise for quite a while over there. Heinsohn already mentions it over 10 years ago.

  • My brother in Hong Kong says that his Chinese wife watches soap-opera-type programs from the mainland that promote the familiar feminist/Progressive mindset.

    Also, I have a question -- are people from higher and lower social classes as comfortable with each other in Chinese cities as they are in, say, Brooklyn, where SWPLs chat easily with South-Italian and Puerto Rican proles in the gym or on supermarket-lines?

    • Chinese soap opera/dramas are feminist as hell. Most are just the female protagonist running around doing stupid shit/hurting themselves, crying about it, all while having everyone else clean up the mess for them and telling them they deserve better. Creates entitlement/princess mentalities.

  • Chinese and Indians are not the best of Friends, or besties as you call it in the west. But Indians and Muslims are even less of Friends. So I'm sure my fellow Indians will excuse me when I jump for Joy shouting

    "China! China! China! China! China! China! China! nauseum, ad infinitum

      • China is bankrolling Pakistan to both fuck with India and to eventually occupy Pakistan as well. Pakistan is all but a colony of China. With thet development in mind, India is all but set to undergo the political equivalent of nuclear fission...........if the Hindus are lucky.

        Being an Indian (I don't consider Muslims and Xtians holding Indian citizenship to be Indians btw), there is not much to celebrate, so we take the small morsels that we get now and then, however soiled said morsel might be. One such soiled morsel is that at least somebody (even if that somebody is really an enemy) is standing up to Islam unapologetically.

        We might celebrate Israel as well, but they are looking mighty shaky lately as well as the fact that Hindus, being polytheists, don't much care for monotheism. As Jim says the Israelis don't seem very resistant to the Cathedral. Not sure if they will last. Probably will get scattered one more time.

  • If the Chinese manage to get a not-cucked flavor of Christianity as their de facto state religion, they'll own the back half of the 21st century. Add high trust to their racial portfolio and they'll become the global hegemon.

    • Yes, if the Chinese cease to be Chinese and become something else entirely, they will get very different results.

      The last time a non-cucked flavor of Christianity was available there was the Taiping Revolt.

      As for high trust, dude, they're Chinese. Are you familiar with the Chinese? These are people who will cut baby formula with poison to make a marginally higher profit.

      • Powdered Bakelite is no poison and increases protein content index. Yet, you are correct. "High trust" is not really applicable to the Chinese people.

    • How cucked is South Korean Christianity? I think it's fairly cucked, but my knowledge there is low.

      If Chinese Christianity gains momentum, I'd think SK is probably your best guide to what happens next.

      Christianity is almost always kinder, gentler, and more feminist than the surrounding culture. Hasn't Spandrell made this point before? When the surrounding culture rewards murderous, destructive aggression, Christianity provides good balance. When the culture is suicidally, pathologically soft, it's tough for Christianity to reverse the problem. It certainly didn't save Rome.

      This isn't always obvious because today in the West, Christianity is the old religion, and the old religion attracts conservative-minded people. People are Christian because they're conservative, not conservative because they're Christian.

      • Yes indeed I did this point here:

        Though you put it very well and much more concisely.

        • I've just reread that post -- very good. Someone commented on your last post to the effect that all big social movements start with "edgy LARPing." I think that 's true, and I think that the West should LARP the religion of Homer. There's something there for everyone: Hephaestus for programmers, Ares for tough guys, Apollo for theorists, Athena for career-ladies, Artemis for cute dykes, etc.

          A LARPed Homeric religion would be indisputably Western in a way that would be acceptable to the Teutons, while the religion of the Poetic Eddas would not be acceptable to the Latins. If anyone wants to LARP Thor-worship, Odin-worship, etc., fine, but that wouldn't be part of the official cult.

          • "Edda" in the singular; sorry. (I have the Hollander translation, and have read maybe 2/5 of it -- I like it a lot.)

          • That commenter was me; but I don't think it's possible to LARP ancient religions back into life. Not only did those religions evolve in a social and material context different than what we have now, they have been outcompeted by newer philosophies who are still alive. We can certainly take elements from them as inspiration, but resurrecting them wholesale ... I don't believe it.

            To make an analogy, what would happen if we resurrected T-Rex & Other dinosaurs ? Would they wreck havoc and conquer the world like in Hollywood movies ? I think they're much more likely to die of hunger and diseases pretty quickly if ever let out of their carefully managed theme-park environment. Sharks & Tigers are now protected species after all.

            For a modern religion to succeed, it needs to take into account modern developments such as birth control, science & the internet. The modern religion that takes that into account is basically SJWism. Kekism looks like a contender. Modern (radical) Islam seems to work as well. They are offensively stupid & ridiculous, But I guess those tiny mammals looked stupid & ridiculous to dinosaurs as well.

      • Judging by what my wife told me about Chinese Christianity (she is Chinese), it seems to be just another superstition the Chinese are prone to succumb to, rather than anything we in the west (or Russia) would recognize as Christianity. Not in terms of official doctrine, but rather in terms of popular beliefs of people who attend Chinese churches: they treat Jesus as just another powerful being (like Confucius, Lao-Tse, Buddha etc.), who fulfills wishes. I had high hopes for 'westernization' of China through Christianity, but not any more. As my ex-girlfriend many years ago put it (she was ethnic Chinese, but not from PRC): "Chinese bastardize everything."

        • I've never seen a chinaman be holier-than-thou. A god of righteous victimhood doesn't sync with their genome.

            • Ah, yes, monks, of course, and I guess old people trying to get into 天堂. But East Asians out here on the Left coast are obsessed with money. They're 110% of "Indian" casino patrons.

  • Modern people find it bothersome to raise families when the iPhone 10 is around the corner, and I hear this one will have great VR, and also, have you heard what our friends did on their vacation?

    In China, they've also got a government which does not want them to have large families.

  • Xinjiang is the biggest province in China,but how many Muslims does China have compared to the Han? How many will they likely have? Furthermore, China do not really do all the bullshit integration nonsense that the West does, so you do not have Muslims getting into too many positions of power and influence.

    If Muslims kill Chinese, then Chinese kill Muslims. Chinese also let Muslims know who is boss by making them cut off their beards and making them eat pork.

    In the end, the Chinese will do what they have to do.

    • "If Muslims kill Chinese, then Chinese kill Muslims. Chinese also let Muslims know who is boss by making them cut off their beards and making them eat pork"

      I believe there is a historical precedent for what you saying. Perhaps You are talking about the Dungan Jihad where the Qing killed large numbers of Muslims? The Hindus say that the Han are the only people the muslims truly fear since the Han will match the Muslims Genocide for Genocide.

      Here is the Hindu reactionary viewpoint regarding the Dungan Jihad and the Taiping Rebellion

      Han and Hindu might be modern day enemies, but the Hindus respect and fear the Han. Hindu respect and admiration is reserved for the Japanese. Historically we called them the UshaPutras, i.e. The Sons of the Dawn

      • Hmm ... but the "British barbarians" admired and very carefully and energetically studied Hindu and Japanese-Buddhist philosophical/theosophical literature. Has "Vajrin" read Augustine and Blake (just an example of an interesting British inheritor of the Christian thought-tradition)? I would love to see a USA-UK-Israeli-Indian-Japanese alliance... (Not to put China down -- it's just that China's kind of essentially on its own.)

        • @Garr

          Vajrin is a very well read guy and if he has not read it, he would definitely be interested. Vajrin blogs here You can definitely engage him. 50% of the Tweets are Islam Bashing. The rest of it is admiration of Japan, interspersed with Christian Bashing followed by exasperation with the apathetic attitude of the Hindus, rounded off with an ambivalent attitude towards China. Once a while tweets bashing feminism also appear

          Vajrin is a bit like Spandrell in the sense that he is our Japan expert. He started reading about China a little bit earlier but he always looks at everything in the sense of "How/What can Hindus learn from this?" But the rest of it is divergence. While the dominant theme punctuating Spandrell is a detached pessimism, this Vajrin guy is all passionate Anger.

          And finally, this guy is the Hindu Moldbug. He is a practicing Micro-biologist and is of the opinion that one who knows History and Biology can make very accurate predictions regarding what humans are going to to do next

          • I wish he had a glossary there. (Was just trying to read his latest, a commentary on Blunt about the Muslim scene.) But I guess he's not writing for people who'd need a glossary.

            • They are both using Sanskrit terms for a lot of things, Yes! I believe they assume their audience to primarily be Hindus and that is the reason

  • People find it bothersome to raise children when they live in crowded rat warrens or cities and have the ability to not have children from technology and more importantly lower social pressure to do so,

    China has a population of 1.3 billion and has probably long reached its social limit, the West also mostly reached its social limit. Germany for example is around half again the size of Oregon and has 80 million people, Oregon would have around 6 million (its 4 and change currently) at the same size and is horribly crowded in many ways . I can't imagine it at 13x the density

    As far as the Muslim issue, the only reason the West has one is its leaders are defacto 5th columnists who are desperate for warm bodies to rule, consume and breed at any cost and who'll sell out their own for a dime of savings in cheap labor.

    I can't speak for China there but I suspect if they felt seriously threatened they'd simply slaughter them until the problem ended. This works pretty well historically and there isn't a thing anyone could or would do about it.

    Anyway on a broader scale, people maybe reasonably assumed the post war birth surge was normal even though in the US at least we were at or below replacement for much of the 30's and until 1940 or so and have spent more time at or below below replacement fertility (minus immigration) than above it

    Shrinkage is probably the new norm till a certain point is reached and it stabilizes (well baring collapse or war scenarios or complete population replacement ) this seems sound to me but I don't run anything where continuous growth is a required part of any model either

    • A.B., I have been reading interpretations like this for 20 years: "... for a dime of savings in cheap labor."

      Persons who say such things are usually my kind of people, so I am predisposed to believe it—and especially from you, because you have generally sensible, interesting things in the past. However, it occurs to me that [a] I don't actually know any entrepreneur/employer who (as far as I know) is eager to sell out his countrymen for the reason you cite and [b] I cannot think of many concrete cases that actually support the point.

      I am beginning to think that there is something wrong with this meme. The drywall contractor who hires illegal day labor at 6 a.m. on the sidewalk before the home-improvement store—see, I know guys like that contractor, and their reasons just aren't the reasons you cite.

      Yet my hero Pat Buchanan, the most prophetic American of his generation, agreed with you as long ago as 1992! What am I missing here?

      • So what are his reasons? I've seen my plenty of contractors and they all hire foreigners for a dime of savings in cheap labor.

        • 1. To hire illegal labor is customary practice in his market.

          2. His business fails if he cannot compete on price.

          3. His job is to hang drywall, not to police the border. He does his job.

          4. His competitors have illegal labor. The law is not enforced against the competitors, either.

          5. Another fellow he knows once tried hanging drywall without illegal labor. That other fellow is out of business now.

          6. A couple of the illegals have now been working for him for years. For better or for worse, he has come to know them personally. One of the illegals has a wife and two kids; he knows the wife and kids, too. The question of employing specific persons he knows has long since ceased to be an abstract question of nationalistic patriotism.

          7. He gets a dime of savings in cheap labor.

          I take no sides, whether for or against. I merely answer your question. Maybe the contractor won a Bronze Star for valor and a Purple Heart during the Gulf War. Maybe he gave $50,000 to fund renovations at the church house. Maybe he kept a Down Syndrome baby he and his wife could instead have aborted. Maybe he did lots of things about which I have no idea and maybe he asks for no sympathy. Maybe he's no more selfish than you and me?

          Or maybe he is indeed more selfish. That's not unlikely.

          I want the cheap labor deported but hesitate to criticize nameless hypothetical businessmen I don't even know—businessmen who have no more influence over the state than I have—for making practical accommodations I too would probably make in their place. The businessmen I do know just don't fit the description. That's all.

          I'd be curious to see some representative case studies.

          • One of the illegals has a wife and two kids; he knows the wife and kids, too.

            A few years from now, one of those kids will drop out of school and get his face tattooed, of course; but the point is that the contractor does not feel that he can answer for that.

      • As a note my politics are roughly 85% similar to that of Buchanan , its no wonder we get along.

        Let me give you a simple example to chew on

        The H1B program came about in 1989 BTW .There was not remotely there a shortage of smart people (the US was around 80% or more White at the time) willing to do tech work for a good wage. There is no such thing as labor shortage in stable times of peace. What is in short supply is cheap, easy to control labor. So in order to "compete" the program was created

        The entire H1B program was designed to arbitrage wages down as were several other less know programs like it. The fact that it allows Leftists to virtue signal about diversity came along later as an added bonus.

        Another point related

        Wages have declined by more than half measured as percent GDP since 1973. some of this is mass entry of women into the work force, some of it automation , some taxes and regulatory overhead and some trade.

        if this were not the case, you'd make around 110% of what you do now with costs around the same.

        This decline in wages was masked by a larger overall economy but this is not longer possible so we've used vast amount of debt to keep it afloat.

        Its not going to be able to continue forever, its gone on longer than it should because the US is the reserve currency and because we have military supremacy over everyone

        This too will change and the US will end up kettled by nukes sooner later or we get a civil war , slow mo collapse into a 3rd world country or any number of any scenarios, all of which mean a new post American world

        The only way Americans come out ahead is for a lot of deportations (10 at minimum, 30-50 is better) , women to mostly stop being workers and optionally start being mothers and for us to embrace economic nationalism

        That will buy us enough time to deal with the inevitable automation boom

        Otherwise, the future will be so bright we'll need night vision goggles

  • About Muslims and their birth rates,

    I see a lot of people concentrate on the man-women relationship in Islam as the explanation, but living in a soon to be muslim majority city, I'd like to offer another perspective.

    The reason they can have so many kids in urban environments is that they simply don't give a shit about their kids. Inshallah. It's not their job to raise their kids, it's Allah's job. Appart from giving them a bed and food, they do little else. They have zero interest in their education, health and status. I don't even think they see their kids as kids and not little men and women.

    I always remember the story of a friend's pupil, a very talented kid from a muslim family, who died from a freak accident. My friend attended the funeral. They made a prayer, dumped the body into their friend's plumber's van, dropped it at the incinerator, and that was it. The family didn't seem to be aware that the kid had any special talent, nor did they had any interest in it. It was just a kid, that died. Inshallah.

    If you don't give a shit about your kids, then raising kids in an urban environment is very easy. All you need is a spare room, bunk beds and extra food. With social aid it can even be profitable.

    And the most interesting part is that science kind of give support to this strategy. If the basics are covered, education and family environment doesn't really influence someone's chances of success in life, it's mostly genetics and luck.

    So women's rights are certainly one obstacle to birth rates, but children's rights, and the massive overspending on education and all kinds of useless toys and shit is probably worse. Of course both are probably linked. But if there's one thing we could probably try to meme is:

    Don't Think of The Children

    • Yes, this indeed. The reason why East Asians have even lower birth rates is their modern spiraling of Confucian faith on education. It makes raising a child a huge, unbearable pain in the ass. Everything, every penny, every second of the day must be focused on educating your child, else you're just an Evil Person, a Selfish Parent. So well, naturally a lot of people don't bother.

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